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The Poker Thread #5 - "Send you back to Russia"

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DJ DUKE DOOM +

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Why raise? Only two limpers so the field is nicely thinned out and I can see a free flop, would have definitely raised if there were 3+ limpers.

Who is four betting with 99s? Best case scenario you're in a race. The object of good poker is to get it all in ahead everytime, and not just 52:48 but 70:30 ahead.

Pocket nines is a good hand but it’s still a speculative hand. A raise might win a small pot however limping will win the really big pots that you need to win tournaments. Flop a set and take down the whole stack of Mr top pair top kicker.

Last edited by DJ DUKE DOOM: 28-Aug-13 at 07:32pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ DUKE DOOM View Post

Best case scenario you're in a race. The object of good poker is to get it all in ahead everytime, and not just 52:48 but 70:30 ahead.

The object of tournament poker is to put yourself in a position to win the tournament. The worst case scenario is you'll be in a race when they limp shove. If they're bad enough to be limp/shoving with KTs they would be bad enough to be limp shoving with stuff like 55.

In this situation the likely thing happening is you raise and everyone else folds. Even if you get a caller, you'll have the best hand on the flop pretty much always and will take it down with a cbet. Not to be rude but based on your post it doesn't sound like you should be playing $30 tournaments online, assuming the plan is to actually win money.
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Worst case is folding to a three bet or being dominated by TT+.

Exactly my point, why take down a tiny preflop pot when you can trap them for their full stack.
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They're trapping with a super premium hand a miniscule percentage of the time.

You're also overestimating how often you hit a set and stack someone.

When you just limp in with 99, more often then not you will be unimproved on the flop, and be playing guessing games as to whether or not you have the best hand in a multi way pot. You're equity in the hand is also reduced because you're playing against more opponents.
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Chance of flopping a set or better is 12%.

I got 17.5 times my money on this occasion... seems like pretty good odds to me.
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Results orientated thinking.
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I'm all for raising 9's pre flop more often than not, but no one has mentioned position once...he was in the small blind, bloating pots OOP is never a great thing, regardless of holdings. 9’s will see over cards on the flop about 65% of the time, then what do you do? C-bet and shut down when called? Check call like a fish and hope like hell they haven’t got it?

There’s arguments for both sides, not just out and out, "I have 9’s, I must raise"

Probably call in that spot, not super happy about it, but yeah, it's probably a call

Had some good scores recently, 1/2 chop chop for $600+ in a $4.40 900+ field, 5th of 800+ in a $5+2R1A for another $600+, 5th in $11 340 Omaha field for $190, 1st in a small field $11 re-buy for $170 as well as lots of min/middle level cashes...rocking a 20% In The Money percentage for MTTs this year, which, judging from pretty much everyone elses stats I've checked, is what you'd call "crushing it" hehe

$1000 withdraw from Stars leaving myself $300 to keep playing same stakes...feels good to finally take some money out of that **** of a site!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

When you just limp in with 99, more often then not you will be unimproved on the flop, and be playing guessing games as to whether or not you have the best hand in a multi way pot. You're equity in the hand is also reduced because you're playing against more opponents.

This, big time, most of the time and especially in position...not so much from the SB...raise it, get called by BB and limper, flop K J 4 and then what? I think flatting from the SB has just as many merits of the way to play it as raising
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Man, what is it with people getting so married to average hands?
Blinds at 350 / 700 + 75, folds to SB wo raises to 1900 (he started hand on 13K, me on 11K), I re-pop him to 5500 with AJss clearly stating my intentions..."you have no fold equity, half my stack is in, I'm calling"...he snap shoves his KQos and binks King on the flop, along with 2 spades, but I can't pick up the Ace or spade.

Seriously, there is not a single hand except stone cold air ball bluffs you're ahead of, folding leaves you 15BBs, you're MILES from being committed, but you call off 90% of your stack anyway...it's fucking maddening...yeah, I know you WANT people making the bad calls like this, but how do they seem to get there 95% of the time when they should only get there about 40% of the time? Drives me mental.

I've put in 14% off my stack, better commit all of it when I'm clearly behind

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnyways...no MTT cashes today...but just won three buy in's at PLO 10c/25c...2 of them in one hand...4 betting Aces double suited, double connected to $10.50, called by two people, jammed flop and held against 2 monster draws...dodged like half a deck of outs! Well, in total, but we were all holding other peoples outs, blocked up everywhere...still didn't expect to win it, but thanks
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Last edited by Random_Kiwi: 30-Aug-13 at 03:22pm

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So many wrong things here....has to be a troll. I have no idea why anyone wants to take 99 against a randowm J3 offsite from the BB. Kick it up so you can at least range your villains
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^ thinking the only way to win with mid pairs is to flop a set? haha

Raise is probably the best option, at least gets the BB out of the hand, defines your hand, gives you some idea of the limpers hand...but flatting isn't completely wrong either imo...raise and you're going to get called by the limper like 90% of the time, and you're going to see over cards on the flop like 65+% of the time...bloating the pot from OOP making it harder to get away from
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yea 99 is def not set dependant...smashes all underpairs, suited connectors etc.

Also, trying to win a massive pot when you limp call pre, flop a set and then suddely start firing in the pot its pretty easy for over pairs to get away from. But raise pre, C bet, turn bet and v bet river...so much more value as AK is still in your range on a 9 high board
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Raising is not "probably" the best option it is and it's not even close. Very often you will take down the pot uncontested and when you raise you will win more often then not you seem to be completely ignoring these facts. Even on boards with 1 overcard against 1 caller you still very likely have the best hand. On boards like K-J-x then obviously you're snap folding and even in situations like this it may get checked down and you win the pot.
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Yeah, you're right, I'd be raising it like 80% of the time, limping the other 20% depending on the villian/your image etc...I don't think you can out and out say limping it was completely wrong though...many ways to play a hand, ones better, the other is still viable in certain situations.

Man...patience, patience, patience...just spent about an HOUR fold fold folding away half my stack in a fucking PLOmaha tournament...mathmatically, I really didn't think it was possible to be that card dead, for that long in Omaha

Barely had any hands which were even limp worthy, when I did, there was a raise and a 3 bet in front...eventually paid off, finally get a raise through and guy folds my ship on the flop, then he gave me an easy double two hands later, then it was 15 people off the bubble with me holding 12BBs and an easy fold to the min cash...knocked soon after when big stack calls button with 2 2 4 6 to my A A Q T and the flop comes A 3 5 for his flopped straight and I can't fill up...pretty ridiculous call of a PSB in Omaha with that shit, on the button, not even in the blind with money already in, but hey, whatever, clowns bink their way into big stacks then they just seem to call and bink bink bink everything...the way it was going, just happy as fuck for the one level up from min cash
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That's probably the story of your life. That is nitting it up so you can min cash.
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Not at all, but way to be a douchebag...posted good results early, learn to read, numbnuts...final tabled this same $11 $3K GTD PLO game twice in the last 2 weeks...I was literally getting the most disgusting junky crap hands, and when in later positions, there was raises and 3 bets in front of me almost everytime. When the cards don't come and there's mountains of action in front of you, what the fuck else can you do but nit up? 4 bet shove nothing? Good one
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When the cards don't come is when the boys are separated from the men. When you play a nitty style you're basically always relying on the cards to determine your outcome. I must admit I am surprised 4 bet shoving is even in your vocabulary, considering you probably never 3 bet unless you have AA/KK. Boom!
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Just shut up, idiot...you know nothing...probably don't even know what PLO is

Hold 'Em is a LOT more forgiving to open or 3 bet without real holdings, PLO simply is not...especially with action in front of you...any 4 bet shove is being called, thus you HAVE to have at least semi-decent connected/suited cards to consider it...I wasn't gettting cards, yet still cashed, so sorry, you can't fault that whatsoever
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Tilt much?
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Only when dealing with retards...like you
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But even retards can make money.

The irony is that the retarded playing style to adopt is a nitty style. You're just too baffed to realise it.
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Right, coz I didn't just cash out $1100AUD from playing $4-$5 buy in games, dont have a 90th percentile ranking, not cashing 19% of games played...yep, must be something completely retarded with my game.

You don't know shit, so please, just stop talking...
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I've made that in one session. And tournaments are a joke.
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OK Phil Ivey, sure you have, run along and play in the traffic
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Don't be bitter. Get better.
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You're easy to read, one dimensional, hyper aggressive, can't play tournaments, can't play live, tilt prone and stubborn.
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Mate who are you kidding. The reason you play tourneys is because you lose a fixed amount. You lack the game and you lack the bankroll to play cash.
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Yeah you'd say the same about these guys too huh?

Antonio Esfandiari
Sam Trickett
Daniel Negreanu
Phil Hellmuth
Michael Mizrachi
John Juanda
Joe Hachem
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First of all you're not those guys so it's a moot point. You're a clown who thinks he can play poker. Secondly, the best tournament players in the world are in fact cash game players.
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You can't play medium or short stacks, you need 100BB's plus to push people around cause you lack the ability and class of a true tournament player.
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You don't understand how stupid you sound. The better players WANT to play with deeper stacks as logic would suggest it's more profitable to do so. This is pretty basic stuff anyone who has a clue about poker would know already.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

First of all you're not those guys so it's a moot point. You're a clown who thinks he can play poker. Secondly, the best tournament players in the world are in fact cash game players.

Really, cause I can't remember the last time I heard Antonio Esfandiari, Phil Hellmuth or Michael Mizrachi win big in a cash game.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

You don't understand how stupid you sound. The better players WANT to play with deeper stacks as logic would suggest it's more profitable to do so. This is pretty basic stuff anyone who has a clue about poker would know already.

CANT - its pretty easy to play 24/7 with 100BB+ not having to worry about bubbles, ICM and stack sizes.
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Mate the only word you have to memorize is MIN CASHING.
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ITM Finishes MTT 36+ players

Place Actual Par
1st 13 6.5
2nd 8 6.5
3rd 7 6.5
4-10th 37 45.5

So I finish 1st, 2nd AND 3rd more than average.

I cashed 22% of the time in 2012.
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Cash and tournaments are like chalk and cheese, the fact it's the same card based game is the only thing that makes them even in the same ball park...otherwise, they're totally different games...just stop comparing them

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcristo View Post

Secondly, the best tournament players in the world are in fact cash game players.

That, that right there, is a crock of shit and shows how little you know about this game

Ferguson, Helmuth, Matasow, D-Negs, Esfandiari, Grinder...kill tournaments, pretty much suck more than I do in cash...Ivey and Merson are some of the few who float both worlds well, and Merson, meh, it was a fluke...since shipping the ME last year he hasn't done squat in tournaments...very very few great tournament players are in fact cash players...head, arse, remove it

I think it's time to just ignore him man, he's full of himself and full of shit, to boot
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Sweeeeeeet...3rd of 300+ in an $11 game, good for $350...needed that...felt like my withdrawal engaged Doom Switch to maximum, haven't gotten sheeeeit since, usual minor levels, but nothing deep...back in the swing now
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Mobile App update, whole suite of games now available...nice! So bored of hold 'em these days
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Watching Day 5 of the Main Event

All in preflop KK vs QQ for 3M+

flop TJQ
turn K

then 9 for the chop, lol
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^ that's gold, eh? Jakie Glazier got pretty lucky there with that ATdd hand, so shit for that other guy
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Bluff shove with outs, and the out hits!
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Yeah, heartbreaking to make the right call and see she's like 25-30% but binks it on you...that deep in that size feild (overall not a bad hand/bad play or nothing, just soul crushing in the context)
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She had to shove, all chips were going in anyway, better to shove than have to call off your tournament life.
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3rd from 280+ in a $3 PLO hi/lo game for $110 and change

Guy got so lucky, I raise my button with Ad2d5c9x and flop 9d 5d 2x...3 pair, flush draw, no low...he check calls my pot bet on Flop and we see a Kx Turn...he check calls my ship, which is 90% pot size bet...binks a fucking 4 on the River for the wheel to scoop it! Put in like 80% of his stack chasing a low and doesn't just hit any low, has to hit the 3 outer (4d would flush me) low and scoop it...grossness!

But hey, I got scooped on when we were still 20+ people from the bubble and got crushed down to 3bbs, so coming back and claiming third, can't really complaing about that!

Been playing a lot of PLO or hi lo recently, so much more fun than hold 'em! The no limit hi lo though, man, that can be so crushing! It's manic, people shipping any ole shitty A2XX hand haha
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Tournaments are boring, fold fold fold fold fold
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Play PLO Hi Lo...shit loads less folding in that...but yeah, as a whole, agree...they're pretty fucking boring.
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Hey guys,

Have picked this up again.

Grinding 10NL and have actually had three coaching lessons too. Started at 20bis and am now at 32bis.

That's including bonuses though so I'm still a donk. Am noticing improvement though particularly around hand reading.

Have a mad set up at home too!
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Sup Marshy...fucking tumbleweeds in here mostly these days, no one seems to be playing anymore...I still dabble in the low skates donkaments, but not a tonne...though did have a couple of $600+ scores recently from just $4 and $5 entries...felt pretty good taking $1200 back out from that **** of the site, Pokerstars

Apparently our days of online poker are numbered not that Abbott is in power...he's already forced iTunes hand to remove Pokerstars app from Aussie availability...it has always been the case that online poker has technically been illegal due to being overseas hosted sites, not taxable from a personal or business sense...when Tony isn't getting his piece of the pie, he makes moves to shut it down. Lots of talk on 2+2 that they're all going to end up blocked to Aussie IP Addresses/Serves etc the same way they are to American ones.
Pete Gordon - Deep and Low

Slower tempo but still with balls, deephouse, slow-mo, futurehouse, nudeep, indie, nudisco, hints of progressive, whatever the fuck you want to call it, just good shit! Get on it

https://soundcloud.com/random_kiwi/deep-and-low
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is releasing a book

Marshy's Avatar
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Shit really?
As if I didn't hate him enough already.

And for shits and giggles, here's my graph, I ended up buying PT4, and think its pretty good.



And my stats over almost 17k hands:
VPIP: 24.96
PFR: 20.91
AFQ: 3.09
3Bet: 10.31

---

Guess where I started getting coaching? My coach says my biggest leak is not believing, which is pretty true. At my stakes they're pretty much broadcasting when they have 2P or better, its just a matter of adjusting to the different players based off the reads/stats/board.

I also bought the latest Harrington book, which was a pretty good read. I didn't like all of it, but the guy had some solid advice on online short-handed.

Its kind of funny that I'm back on the degenerate bandwagon after all these years. I hit Vegas earlier in the year and it wasn't kind to me. I think I ended up $500 down, and at one stage it was as bad as $1,200 but I regrouped. I was a shell of a man by the end of my 5 days there. Damn aircon.
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So far out it's in

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Nice turn around man, not believing is a bit of a leak in my game, too, especially in cash...find I can read the play in tournaments a lot better.

Also been playing PLO a lot more, shit that makes a believer out of you! So many times you've flopped a straight, flush hits, they always have it...you turn a straight/flush, board pairs the river, they always have it...can be such a bitch of a game, but fucking fun, too.
Pete Gordon - Deep and Low

Slower tempo but still with balls, deephouse, slow-mo, futurehouse, nudeep, indie, nudisco, hints of progressive, whatever the fuck you want to call it, just good shit! Get on it

https://soundcloud.com/random_kiwi/deep-and-low
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